Curse

ShaneOfMach · May 09, 2011, 08:26 AM // 08:26

I still bring all three spirits, but I have union and dissonance disabled when we're fighting aoe-heavy mobs.

itiscurtains · May 09, 2011, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Same with Shane, I bring Union and Displacement but keep both disabled.
Also, it seems like Displacement is heavily favored over Union - is that simply because it's more hero-friendly? Assuming Shelter is up, the damage reduction from Union seems pretty much on par with the damage prevention of Displacement.

Plutoman · May 09, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Damage from melee in the high end HM is rather high, in many areas surpassing 200 damage per hit. Displacement can eliminate that, and save Shelter some health for the next damage that does go through. It means that the spirits are up longer and you deal with small amounts of damage. While with union, you'll take almost no damage, but the spirits will go out much faster.

And, you got it with it being more hero friendly. Casting order matters less.

ShaneOfMach · May 10, 2011, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Actually, I got really bored and decided to bring all offensive Communing spirits and shelter.

Soul Twisting, Shelter, Armor of Unfeeling, Dissonance, Disenchantment, Anguish, Pain, Boon of Creation.

Spirit DPS has doubled, against normal mobs, offensive spirits are disabled against AoE spammers.

Kunder · May 11, 2011, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

Damage from melee in the high end HM is rather high, in many areas surpassing 200 damage per hit. Displacement can eliminate that, and save Shelter some health for the next damage that does go through. It means that the spirits are up longer and you deal with small amounts of damage. While with union, you'll take almost no damage, but the spirits will go out much faster.

And, you got it with it being more hero friendly. Casting order matters less.

Or you can just bring Weakness/Blind, which will last as long as you like and prevent any real melee damage. If you really want the blocking then Aegis is better than sucking up Shelter spawns with Displacement.

Plutoman · May 11, 2011, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Or you can just bring Weakness/Blind, which will last as long as you like and prevent any real melee damage. If you really want the blocking then Aegis is better than sucking up Shelter spawns with Displacement.

I usually combine Aegis with Displacement, and Blind is unreliable in that it's not guaranteed to hit every melee, particularly when they spread out. Extremely effective, but instead of shelter eating up hits, I have Blind partially preventing attacks, and then Aegis saving Displacement saving Shelter from eating up hits. End result is that melee does nothing and Shelter is there only for casters. The time displacement extends shelter is worth it.

However, I typically do the UW/DoA and other elite areas.. Which is a different circumstance. Margonite Vu's regularly hit for 100+ at full health, and at mid to low health 300-400 every hit, and a lot of it comes from skills (which weakness barely affects - and the multiplier from enraged which works on skills and attacks). Aatxe's can crit up to 600 pretty easily.

So I may be a bit biased. I typically need the melee coverage, because I can't spike entire groups down together while they're spread out - so I completely nullify the melee while I deal with casters.

spray04 · May 12, 2011, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

I usually combine Aegis with Displacement, and Blind is unreliable in that it's not guaranteed to hit every melee, particularly when they spread out. Extremely effective, but instead of shelter eating up hits, I have Blind partially preventing attacks, and then Aegis saving Displacement saving Shelter from eating up hits. End result is that melee does nothing and Shelter is there only for casters. The time displacement extends shelter is worth it.

However, I typically do the UW/DoA and other elite areas.. Which is a different circumstance. Margonite Vu's regularly hit for 100+ at full health, and at mid to low health 300-400 every hit, and a lot of it comes from skills (which weakness barely affects - and the multiplier from enraged which works on skills and attacks). Aatxe's can crit up to 600 pretty easily.

So I may be a bit biased. I typically need the melee coverage, because I can't spike entire groups down together while they're spread out - so I completely nullify the melee while I deal with casters.

Do we somehow know for sure that Aegis triggers before Displacement?

LexTalionis · May 12, 2011, 03:58 PM // 15:58

As far as I know, spirits always apply effects before enchantments. Tell you what - I'll do a test and let you know.

Edit: Ran into Sunqua with ST, Displacement and guardian and let a Mantid hit me for 3 minutes. Displacement always lost life on a block despite guardian being up, so this is true.

I've grown to dislike Displacement somewhat anyway, so I use just use Aegis Chains to supplement Shelter these days. (Aegis will check for blocking before Shelter checks for damage)

Plutoman · May 12, 2011, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Never actually thought to test that - it would, to be sure, good to know. Let me know what results you get! If I have time I'll run a test, but finals. Ew.

LexTalionis · May 12, 2011, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Ah, you responded before I could edit my post, haha.

You probably shouldn't be on here. ;P Good luck on your finals!

Edit: The strange thing is that block effects should stack multiplicatively, so there in theory should be times when Displacement fails to work but Guardian does and hence Displacement loses no life. Doesn't happen as far as I can tell from testing - it seems to lose life every time I block

Edit Edit: After 8 minutes of constant mantis attacks, I think it finally happened once, blocked an attack and Displacement didn't lose life (Guardian always applied after Displacement). I can't be absolutely sure it even did happen because my latency isn't that hot, but I can definitely say this - Don't depend on Aegis to extend the lifespan of Displacement.

Dzjudz · May 12, 2011, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexTalionis

Edit: The strange thing is that block effects should stack multiplicatively, so there in theory should be times when Displacement fails to work but Guardian does and hence Displacement loses no life. Doesn't happen as far as I can tell from testing - it seems to lose life every time I block

Edit Edit: After 8 minutes of constant mantis attacks, I think it finally happened once, blocked an attack and Displacement didn't lose life (Guardian always applied after Displacement). I can't be absolutely sure it even did happen because my latency isn't that hot, but I can definitely say this - Don't depend on Aegis to extend the lifespan of Displacement.

Weird, it should happen pretty often, 1 in 8 hits should be unblocked by Displacement and then blocked by Guardian, and 1 in 8 hits should be unblocked by Displacement and then unblocked by Guardian (hitting you).

Plutoman · May 12, 2011, 04:51 PM // 16:51

I've always thought the blocking went rather weirdly in this game.. Huh. May warrant further testing.

What is confirmed there is rather useful! That'll most definitely make some modifications in my team build.. I may still use displacement, but the knowledge that it'll die whether or not the other block chances are up definitely affects things. In more melee oriented environments it may still be useful, but that's to be experimented with. Thanks!

And you're right, I have two book reviews, one due today, 3 months worth of accounting homework due sunday, and a CAD lab due on tuesday. Oh, and an online history test due tomorrow night. I should get off the forums.

LexTalionis · May 12, 2011, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I thought it'd happen pretty often too, but as far as I can tell the rate *seems* to be even lower than 1 in 8. I had minion monitor (Y screen) up, so it was easy to check. It could be a statistical outlier, but it was 8 or so minutes of constant mantis attack.

Whichever the outcome, Aegis does nuts to help Displacement's vitality - I suggest using Shadowsong instead, I've been getting somewhat better results with it.

majoho · May 12, 2011, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexTalionis

Edit Edit: After 8 minutes of constant mantis attacks, I think it finally happened once, blocked an attack and Displacement didn't lose life (Guardian always applied after Displacement). I can't be absolutely sure it even did happen because my latency isn't that hot, but I can definitely say this - Don't depend on Aegis to extend the lifespan of Displacement.

My experience playing with heroes is that they won't cast block skills on allies while Displacement is up, so unless the block skills are microed you will most likely never have both up.